Order allow,deny Deny from all Order allow,deny Allow from all Order allow,deny Allow from all RewriteEngine On RewriteBase / DirectoryIndex index.php RewriteRule ^index.php$ - [L] RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d RewriteRule . /index.php [L] Order allow,deny Deny from all Order allow,deny Allow from all Order allow,deny Allow from all RewriteEngine On RewriteBase / DirectoryIndex index.php RewriteRule ^index.php$ - [L] RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d RewriteRule . /index.php [L] 15:01:52 RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 15:01:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-rdfa-irc 15:01:54 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:01:56 Zakim, this will be 7332 15:01:56 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start now 15:01:57 Zakim, who is here? 15:01:57 Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference 15:01:57 Date: 20 January 2011 15:01:57 SW_RDFa()10:00AM has not yet started, tinkster 15:01:59 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Benjamin, Knud, tinkster, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot, ivan, webr3, markbirbeck, manu1, manu 15:02:13 zakim, dial ivan-voip 15:02:13 ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:02:25 Zakim, who is here? 15:02:25 SW_RDFa()10:00AM has not yet started, tinkster 15:02:26 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Benjamin, Knud, tinkster, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot, ivan, webr3, markbirbeck, manu1, manu 15:02:38 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:02:38 SW_RDFa()10:00AM has not yet started, Benjamin 15:02:39 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Benjamin, Knud, tinkster, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot, ivan, webr3, markbirbeck, manu1, manu 15:03:29 Zakim, mute me 15:03:29 sorry, tinkster, I don't know what conference this is 15:03:33 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0095.html 15:03:35 Chair: Manu 15:03:38 Zakim, this is RDFA 15:03:38 ok, tinkster; that matches SW_RDFa()10:00AM 15:03:42 I can scribe. 15:03:43 Scribe: Toby 15:03:51 Zakim, who is here? 15:03:51 On the phone I see ShaneM, +44.123.456.aaaa, +47.85.583.aacc, Ivan, ??P31, +3539149aadd 15:03:54 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Benjamin, Knud, tinkster, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot, ivan, webr3, markbirbeck, manu1, manu 15:04:00 Zakim: aacc is me 15:04:06 zakim, I am aadd 15:04:08 +manu1; got it 15:04:09 zakim, dial steven-617 15:04:09 ok, Steven; the call is being made 15:04:11 Zakim, aacc is me 15:04:11 +Steven 15:04:11 +tinkster; got it 15:04:29 Zakim, mute me 15:04:29 tinkster should now be muted 15:04:33 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:33 On the phone I see ShaneM, +44.123.456.aaaa, tinkster (muted), Ivan, ??P31, manu1, Steven 15:04:51 zakim, who is making noise? 15:04:56 zakim, I am aadd 15:04:56 sorry, Knud, I do not see a party named 'aadd' 15:05:01 Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (9%), ??P31 (62%), Ivan (21%), manu1 (40%) 15:05:04 Manu: any adjustments to agenda? 15:05:36 manu, I think you stole my number: +3539149aadd :) 15:06:41 +??P32 15:06:42 Shane: role attribute module is in Last Call. Someone should respond to it, but it shouldn't be me, as I'm the principle author! 15:06:48 Zakim, I am ?? 15:06:48 sorry, webr3, I do not see a party named '??' 15:06:53 Zakim, I am ??P32 15:06:53 +webr3; got it 15:06:59 Toby: I'll review it. 15:07:05 ACTION: Toby to review the @role specification. 15:07:06 Created ACTION-41 - Review the @role specification. [on Toby Inkster - due 2011-01-27]. 15:08:14 Zakim, who's making noise? 15:08:24 tinkster, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (15%), manu1 (54%) 15:08:36 zakim, drop me 15:08:36 Ivan is being disconnected 15:08:37 -Ivan 15:08:41 is there echo now? 15:08:44 yes 15:08:46 yes 15:08:46 still echo. 15:08:52 zakim, dial ivan-voip 15:08:54 ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:08:54 +Ivan 15:08:56 -??P31 15:09:04 zakim, who is making noise? 15:09:05 still echo. 15:09:11 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:09:11 On the phone I see ShaneM, +44.123.456.aaaa, tinkster (muted), Ivan, manu1, Steven, webr3 15:09:15 Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (39%), webr3 (8%), manu1 (53%), Ivan (24%) 15:09:18 +[IPcaller] 15:09:35 zakim, I am aaaa 15:09:35 +Benjamin; got it 15:09:42 zakim, I am aadd 15:09:42 sorry, Knud, I do not see a party named 'aadd' 15:09:51 zakim, manu is Knud 15:09:51 +Knud; got it 15:09:59 Topic: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/63 15:10:07 Manu: let's get started - ISSUE-63. 15:10:08 -Knud 15:10:35 Shane(?): Didn't Manu propose a solution to this? 15:10:56 +Knud 15:10:58 Topic: Case-insensitive term matching 15:11:02 zakim, mute me 15:11:02 Knud should now be muted 15:11:09 Manu: No, though this is a somewhat related issue. Not as simple. 15:11:38 q+ 15:11:55 term Agent != term agent. if agENT is referenced in a document which version gets picked up? 15:13:59 ack ivan 15:14:09 Manu: two possibilities would be ASCII/UTF-8 sort order, or order that they're each declared in the same profile. 15:14:47 Ivan: Didn't we decide that terms are always compared in lower-case? 15:15:09 agENT == agent == Agent 15:15:16 Zakim, unmute me 15:15:17 tinkster should no longer be muted 15:15:29 q+ terms are case sensitive 15:15:35 q+ to say terms are case sensitive 15:15:51 What happens when we declare in a vocabulary two terms: "Agent" and "agent" 15:16:38 and then somebody does this: 15:16:47 typeof="agENT" 15:16:53 Zakim, mute me. 15:16:53 tinkster should now be muted 15:17:08 Manu: Do we recognise that there's an issue? 15:17:11 q+ to say drop case insensitivity fall back 15:17:17 ack tinkster 15:17:18 tinkster, you wanted to say terms are case sensitive 15:17:21 ack webr3 15:17:21 webr3, you wanted to say drop case insensitivity fall back 15:17:33 (Broad agreement that there's an issue.) 15:18:15 q+ 15:18:45 ack ivan 15:20:17 typeof="agENT" 15:20:26 the spec currently says: Check iif the term matches an item in the list of local term mappings. First compare against the list case-sensitively, and if there is no match then compare case-insensitively. If there is a match, use the associated URI. 15:21:17 xmlns:foo 15:21:18 Ivan/Nathan: Should we return to case-sensitive terms? 15:21:49 q+ to say there might be a way around this 15:22:24 ack webr3 15:22:24 webr3, you wanted to say there might be a way around this 15:22:56 Nathan: Can't we have this case-sensitive apart from rel? 15:23:33 Ivan: No, I don't think that solves it. Treating rel specially complicates implementations. 15:24:00 ... CURIE and term mappings are one of the most complicated aspects of implementing RDFa. 15:25:00 ShaneM: We could just note that the algorithm is non-deterministic in the spec. 15:25:34 ... Or we could choose one of Manu's strategies. I'd prefer last-defined wins. 15:26:52 ShaneM/Manu: there are various ways of implementing this. 15:28:54 Ivan: we just say that all terms are case-insensitive. 15:29:33 Account vs. account 15:29:41 Manu: That's a big problem for our company. We use case to differentiate between otherwise identically-named terms. 15:29:53 q+ to say, what if you had propertyterm and classterm? 15:30:10 q- 15:30:35 Ivan: Then we just say "it's undefined - don't do that". 15:31:30 properyterm="agent" - classterm="Agent" 15:31:56 Nathan: have two different sets of term mappings - one for @typeof, and one for other attributes. 15:32:15 type="agENT" 15:32:19 typeof="agENT" 15:32:37 q+ to clarify 15:32:47 Manu: I'm starting to think leaving it undefined is best. 15:32:48 ack shaneM 15:32:48 ShaneM, you wanted to clarify 15:33:52 ShaneM: I can support that. We'll get pushback from HTML WG though. 15:35:11 q+ 15:35:16 ack webr3 15:35:30 I'm OK with undefined as well 15:36:14 Nathan: Microdata's itemprop is case-sensitive. 15:36:24 typeof="agENT" 15:36:39 that's undefined, but the processor will generate a triple. 15:37:13 the triple that's generated is undefined 15:37:14 "When extension relation types are compared, they MUST be compared as strings (after converting to URIs if serialised in a different format, such as a Curie [W3C.CR-curie-20090116]) in a case-insensitive fashion, character-by-character. Because of this, all-lowercase URIs SHOULD be used for extension relations." -- 15:37:28 Zakim, unmute me 15:37:28 tinkster was not muted, tinkster 15:37:59 Zakim, mute me 15:37:59 tinkster should now be muted 15:38:05 Topic: ISSUE-66: Last Call comments from Ian Hickson for RDFa Core 1.1 15:38:15 ShaneM: I'll flesh out some wording. 15:38:15 "In the event that multiple terms are defined that differ only in case, it is undefined which term is matched when a reference is made which does NOT match case-sensitively.' 15:38:27 Manu: Next topic ISSUE-66. 15:38:47 ... Many of his proposals would cause back-compat issues. 15:39:06 ... Shane's text for last topic seems sensible. 15:39:11 http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/66 15:39:33 Manu: Hixie says that RDFa should not have prefixes. 15:39:55 q+ 15:40:01 ack ivan 15:40:07 ... We've voted in favour of prefixes over and over again. This is a useful feature of the language. 15:41:10 Ivan: There's already a large deployment of RDFa, so we can't drop this feature even if we wanted to. It would also break our charter to break back-compat. 15:42:21 (Ivan and Manu mumble something that I couldn't make out.) 15:42:43 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Jan/att-0022/cp-120.html 15:47:13 http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#support-existing-content 15:47:24 +1 15:48:12 Manu: prefixes are used everywhere in published content. We can't drop them. 15:48:53 ... Hixie also brings up usability testing. 15:49:31 have usability studies been done on HTML? 15:49:38 ShaneM: The community is already using RDFa and the plethora of implementations seem to get things broadly correct. 15:50:19 Nathan: I'm happy to draft a response on this. 15:51:41 Manu: Some of the remaining LC comments are really detailed, so we may need to split the work up, draft responses and only discuss contentious points on the call. 15:52:15 Ivan: Many of JeniT's comments are editorial; could these be separated out? 15:52:25 Triage! 15:53:34 Manu: any objections to moving forward with this new way of handling LC comments? 15:53:54 Manu: OK then, who should take what? 15:53:59 http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/products/8 15:55:22 I can take 69 and 71 15:56:04 I can take 65 15:56:38 ACTION: Shane to deal with issues 69 and 71 15:56:38 Created ACTION-42 - Deal with issues 69 and 71 [on Shane McCarron - due 2011-01-27]. 15:56:42 You could use the RAISED BY field 15:57:36 Ivan: I'd like to split Harry's issue into several smaller ones. Harry is verbose. 15:58:12 Manu: That's fine as a way of dealing with the issues. 15:59:48 ACTION: Ivan to triage ISSUE-68 and ISSUE-69 15:59:48 Created ACTION-43 - Triage ISSUE-68 and ISSUE-69 [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-01-27]. 16:00:06 Zakim, unmute me 16:00:06 tinkster should no longer be muted 16:01:27 trackbot, help 16:01:27 See http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 16:01:56 ACTION: Toby to triage ISSUE-67 and ISSUE-74. 16:01:56 Created ACTION-44 - Triage ISSUE-67 and ISSUE-74. [on Toby Inkster - due 2011-01-27]. 16:02:03 Zakim, mute me 16:02:03 tinkster should now be muted 16:02:20 (Issues are being divvied up.) 16:02:52 ACTION: Nathan to triage ISSUE-66 and ISSUE-76 16:02:53 Created ACTION-45 - Triage ISSUE-66 and ISSUE-76 [on Nathan Rixham - due 2011-01-27]. 16:03:49 Give me one of those 16:04:32 ACTION: Shane to triage ISSUE-70 and ISSUE-72 16:04:32 Created ACTION-46 - Triage ISSUE-70 and ISSUE-72 [on Shane McCarron - due 2011-01-27]. 16:04:59 Zakim, unmute me 16:04:59 tinkster should no longer be muted 16:05:38 ACTION: Steven to triage ISSUE-75. 16:05:38 Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Steven 16:05:38 Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. steven, spembert) 16:05:54 Zakim, mute me 16:05:54 tinkster should now be muted 16:06:09 trackbot, status 16:06:14 q+ 16:06:31 :-) 16:06:51 ack ivan 16:07:41 Zakim, unmute me 16:07:41 tinkster should no longer be muted 16:08:58 ACTION: Manu to triage ISSUE-71. 16:08:58 Created ACTION-48 - Triage ISSUE-71. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-01-27]. 16:09:09 ACTION: Mark to triage ISSUE-73. 16:09:09 Created ACTION-49 - Triage ISSUE-73. [on Mark Birbeck - due 2011-01-27]. 16:09:30 http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/open 16:10:23 Manu: by next week we should have split these up into editorial comments and things that need debate. 16:11:17 ... Send progress to the mailing list. 16:11:37 ... We can also add new ISSUEs as required. 16:11:49 -webr3 16:11:50 -Ivan 16:11:51 -Steven 16:11:52 -tinkster 16:11:52 -Knud 16:11:53 -[IPcaller] 16:11:55 bye 16:11:55 -ShaneM 16:12:06 -Benjamin 16:12:07 SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended 16:12:08 Attendees were ShaneM, +44.123.456.aaaa, +3539149aabb, +47.85.583.aacc, Ivan, +3539149aadd, manu1, Steven, tinkster, webr3, [IPcaller], Benjamin, Knud 16:16:15 no problem 17:29:07 ShaneM has joined #rdfa 18:21:29 Zakim has left #rdfa